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 Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust

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Burliest Bear
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PostSubject: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Mon May 19, 2014 8:57 pm

Let me edit my previously semi-coherent rant...


Pokemonwars needs to update its rules. Whether we completely follow Smogon or continue on with our previous list of exceptions and variants, it needs to be codified, clearly stated and up-to-date. (Please don't - we're not Smogon, even if their tiering is typically justified.)

I, like many others, firmly disagree with Smogon's new round of the knee-jerk banhammer. Mega Lucario in Uber? Don't make me laugh. Outright bans of moves like Swagger? Again, laughing. (Oops, opponent was not confused and just swatted my Klefki like a gnat after it's attack boost.) Ability bans!?
I've disagreed with the accuracy clauses for quite a while, but I can understand the desire to minimize (heh, pun) ragequits when a Sand Veil Garchomp proceeds to dodge three Ice Beams or a Chansey sweeps a team.

I spent all last night looking for a site that could compare to Pokemonwars and came up dry, so I really don't want to leave, but I'm really, really tired of getting random updates - typically when I'm in the middle of a battle with someone on this site. So, unless we get our rules straight and figure out the degree to which we're participating in Smogon's tiering (or lack thereof), I won't be battling on here.

If some of the admins are willing to get together and iron this out - even in GC's absence, y'all still run the site - I'd be happy to help and put in a ton of legwork. Many people are getting thoroughly sick of Smogon's decisions, and we stand as having the best shot to provide a sensible alternative... Or we can just kind of lump along with the flow.


Personally, I hope we're an alternative.


Last edited by Yf on Tue May 20, 2014 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dem
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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Tue May 20, 2014 8:05 am

Yea, to be honest some of the Smogon rules suck, beca- Wait, what? No Yf! Don't leave us!

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SickSouls
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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Tue May 20, 2014 9:31 am

"Thanks for all the fish" xD guess we know now how Dem gets rid of his extra Magikarp.

Oh, but wait, Yf we have not made that rule here. We haven't altered our rules regarding the move. I personally use a Thundurus with Swagger myself, on official E4 matches shoot, the administrator Aurath uses swagger on his Umbreon, while on official E4 matches as well as me and some other trainers. So, that means we have not yet even come to discuss that rule.

Oh, and hey, I hope you don't think we'll change any rules because a particular member threatens to leave... But no, swagger is still in OU here, at Pokemon Wars. Personally I have nothing against the move, it's a fifty fifty chance, and the only way to use a prankster 'mon like Klefki offensively. Meh, I doubt care about the rule.

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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Tue May 20, 2014 10:23 am

I have an idea how about we just ban prankster swagger. But not the move.
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Burliest Bear
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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Tue May 20, 2014 12:27 pm

Updated rant is less ranty and more sensible. Anyone wanna roundtable on getting our rules in order?

And SS, thanks for your comment. I do appreciate the neutrality, even when it could work against me. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Tue May 20, 2014 8:11 pm

No kidding, my post was pointless xD but wait, can't we just have a poll on the ban of Swagger? I don't really think anyone opposes the move... Or we could just ignore Smogon's update.

As for Mega Lucario, I too was shocked to see him in Ubers, but his ability Adaptability... It doubles his STAB attack's base power... A Close Combat becomes 240 base power, and a Bullet Punch 80 base power and Lucario's attack stat alone is 145 (and special attack of 140), with a speed of 112, and his badassery looks are intimidating xD but wait, this isn't the topic to discuss the tiers. WHY CAN'T I HAVE A BLAZIKEN! Sad kidding, I'm over that. Too many Talonflames lurking about now adays.

Look, we haven't taken up the Swagger ban, and I don't think anyone is planning to. As a matter of fact, who here wants the move Swagger to be officially banned? Just say it now if anyone cares enough and we can open up a proper topic in an appropriate section, and go to war over this xD

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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Tue May 20, 2014 8:16 pm

Yf wrote:
Updated rant is less ranty and more sensible. Anyone wanna roundtable on getting our rules in order?

And SS, thanks for your comment. I do appreciate the neutrality, even when it could work against me. Laughing

No, that would involve banning many Pokemon, and Swagger is COMPLETELY useless without Prankster. Yeah, I know, too lazy to edit my previous post, I'm a busy guy (not).

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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Tue May 20, 2014 8:51 pm

how would it involve banning pokemon -----____---- its the combo not the poke. And with prankster its just full of luck.there's no skill. I mean tell me how it would feel if i beat red by getting lucky with swagger,confusion,paralysis.thats not skill thats luck.
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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Tue May 20, 2014 11:20 pm

Y'all are missing my main (revised) point here - our site's rules are not clear, nor are they timely. What I'm (strongly) suggesting is that we codify them into a single, comprehensive post that all players on this site can readily follow for competitive battling.

If we agree with Smogon on some things, fine. If we don't, that's fine too (screw you, Mega Khan). I just want them all in one place so I'm not blindsided mid-battle with "HAXXXXXXX!!!!" and an SOP of having players and/or mods come to a consensus BEFORE new rules are instituted from other sites.

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Dem
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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Wed May 21, 2014 5:09 am

Here we go again… SS, Taka, look we can fight about this later in a different topic alright? What you're trying to do is going to be endless. What we SHOULD be thinking about is coming to a conclusion with ALL of the rules. Yf is right, we can't be running half off Smogon and half off PW, it causes too much confusion and fights because you can't decide what the rules should be (coughsicksoulscoughtakacough). We need to make the Pokemon Wars rules.

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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Wed May 21, 2014 6:16 pm

Ok. Just let me compose myself.............

Firstly, the use of prankster has not been added to our set of rules because it is not banned on this site. Our rules are based on Smogon but not all are followed.
In regards to the ban on Lucarionite - Lucario may seem to be lack luster and the mega is a perfect way to boost its stats. However, Mega Lucario gains two lots of boosts to its STAB moves. Firstly the stab bonus, then the Adaptability bonus. Lets take Close combat a 120 base move, after both stab and Adaptability to becomes a 240 base move and if you get a sword dance up it hits a whopping 480 base power! Two priority moves, one boosted to a stunning 90 base. Thing is It has been banned for what I CAN do.
Like Mega Gengar and Mega Blaziken, it is banned due to the chance of getting it into a power stage. although its controversial it has been banned to help level out the power in the playing field.

With regards to Swagger. I see no issue with this and as such it has not been banned by Pokémon wars. There will be no likelihood of banning until it is brought up in the pokemon wars court and as I have use of the move, I will not be bringing it up myself. It has not been added to the court discussion and as such, it will remain a useable move in all pokemon wars battles.

With regard to accuracy. This has been banned by Smogon and a rule enforced here because its A) Luck based and B) To prevent battles from being drawn out. A battle that times out this Gen is still considered a tie and if your 6-1 up and your foe simply evades all your moves due to accuracy mechanics your gonna feel pretty unhappy that the battle is forced to a tie. Dunno about you guys, that's my thoughts on that matter.

As SS said, I personally use swagger on my Umbreon and as such am happy leaving the Smogon ban on it outside the forum.
We will not move forward with banning Prankster Swagger either as that combo is not game breaking. It is luck based as confusion is a 50/50% chance to hit yourself. I personally use Swagger to boost the effectiveness of my Foul plays and if my foe wants to punch itself in the face thinking its me? Well than that's that Pokémon's issue not mine.

I disagree that Prankster is luck based. It depends on how the pokemon is played. Simply swaggering a pokemon with massive attack like a Garchomp and the hoping it hits it's self is to big a risk if you ask me. I prefer Sableye and Whismsicott, who both have prankster and whom cripple there foes without any 'luck' based moves.

The Pokémon Wars rules are in a world post, meaning they are accessible on any post in any section of the site. They are currently up to date and clear in my opinion. Unless you see the rule or the ban it is not banned.

I will go through the rules however and I will clarify them, however we run using a lot of Smogon rules to base our own. they are in place to ensure that all battles are fair and competitive. This forum is to promote the use of ALL Pokémon, not just the most OP. I personally feel there is not skill in picking the strongest Pokémon every single battle. Where is the fun in using the same Pokémon over and over?

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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Wed May 21, 2014 7:00 pm

Here are the rules.
http://pokemonwars.forumotion.com/t609-pokemon-wars-general-battle-rules
Please inform me if I have missed any or any need changing or clarifying

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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Wed May 21, 2014 10:43 pm

And... That was that. Welp... Another job well done, boss xD

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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Thu May 22, 2014 12:42 am

A few things - the post seems like it wants to link to the 6gen ban list, but it doesn't. Also, this little line gives me trouble. From our 6th gen tier list:

"Hi Everyone - some confusion with this exercise so I wanted to clarify one thing. If a Pokemon does not appear in our teir list, it follows Smogon's CURRENT tier list for gen 6. This is can be found here: http://www.smogon.com/xyhub/tiers"

This means if we DON'T change it specifically, we follow Smogon. And that means Swagger is banned. Additionally, we don't ever seem to play in any tiers aside from Uber and Legal, except for special bouts of midget wrestling. So, are Mega Heracross, Mega Medichem and Mega Gardevoir banned, along with Drought and Drizzle from the UU tier restrictions?
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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Thu May 22, 2014 8:28 am

>.< YF your making a huge deal out of nothing.... WE play by our won rules BASED on Smogon. Not Smogon rules. Swagger is NOT banned, Mega Heracross, Mega Medichem and Mega Gardevoir are also NOT banned. Lastly, we have no restrictions on weather as we do not play in a tiered structure. We only follow the pokemon banned from OU by Smogon.

If you want Tiered battles, then please post and ask for battles in this section of the forum http://pokemonwars.forumotion.com/f4-challenges

The link you have added is based on Pokémon wars ideas of a tier system, but ass all Pokémon we have banned in out official rules are also banned by Smogon, there is little need to add this link. It is simply a discussion on where we thing Pokémon should be tiered.

That particular part of the post has been removed now. But regardless of what old posts you dig put, the only rules that matter are the new ones I have posted a yesterday.




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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Thu May 22, 2014 10:23 am

Thank you, that clears things up.

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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Thu May 22, 2014 10:36 am

Smile its fine. Is it all in order now YF? :o

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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Thu May 22, 2014 10:39 am

We're far less scattered than before and I have links now - also, the exact relationship between our rules and Smogon is something I had never seen before on this site, and I evidently got the wrong impression from the posts in the courts and rules discussions.

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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:52 am

I think part of what Yf is trying to say is that the rules we have and follow are not clearly written out in one post. While its not a major issue, sometimes i have to go hunting for specific rules or clarification and sometimes get lost with where everything is.
Maybe a little reordering and redone rules section would help?
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PostSubject: Re: Official updated Pokemonwars rules or bust   Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:30 am

Oh yeah I agreed with Blue. A big global post with every single rule that regards battling was needed, and that's what we got.

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