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 Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars

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Burliest Bear
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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:25 am

Advocacy for Sand Veil Garchomp w/o Bright Powder/Lax Incense

Think it shouldn't be classed in Uber tier, as w/o the item boosting its evasion further, it will still get hit frequently by 100acc moves, but will still have a better than average chance to evade STABed sweepers, such as Hydro Pump. Moreover, if the terrain effect changes from Sandstorm to any other weather condition (ie. rain or sun, giving Hydro Pump and Solar Beam 1HKO potential), 'chomp essentially becomes a beefy land dragon without any ability. Additionally, with the new Garchompite, the incentive to run Brightpowder/Lax Incense is diminished, and Mega 'chomp has stats comparable to many that remain on the OU tier.

In summary, he's a fun concept that can really screw with some OP movesets, but not gamebreaking material.

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Burliest Bear
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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:48 am

Advocacy for pre-ban status of Speed Boost Blaziken w/o Baton Pass.

...'cause, yeah. If Baton Pass was the icing on the cake to rule it Uber, just remove it and return it to OU.

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:32 pm

I'm kinda seeing where Yf is going with this. I think we should allow Garchomp with sand veil in sandstorm. It is the bright powder that makes him terribly annoying, besides in the 6th generation, the weather will last for about 6 turns if I recall correctly. The new length limitation makes it a bit fair, since it'll take at least a turn and a move slot, even with Tyranitat/Hippowdow, a team member sacrifice is still requires. . Besides, Garchomp only fears Ice Beam and it has 100% accuracy.

I'm okay with the idea as long as there's no evasion enhancing item and that this rule stays active only for the 6th generation.

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:50 pm

Moves can still miss with %100 accuracy if he has sand veil though
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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:03 pm

I don't think I want to face a sand veil garchomp. Sand veil gives a 25% evasion boost. It's bad enough that garchomp is a powerful sweeper without the ability and a miss on something that powerful could cost you the entire match.
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Burliest Bear
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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:22 pm

...only in sandstorms. Sigh.

Ah well, at least put Blaziken back in OU and ban Baton Pass on it?

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:03 pm

Advocacy on Scope Lens/Sharp Claw:

The stated objective of banning "hax" items is to...

Green Charizard wrote:
bulbapedia wrote:

Hax
Refers to outcomes that are perceived as unlikely to the point of being unfair. Common targets are critical hits, moves missing, the success of secondary effects, and full paralysis. Can also refer to reliance on uncertain outcomes, such as the use of one-hit knockout moves or held items like Quick Claw, Focus Band, or BrightPowder. Hax is, somewhat paradoxically, often associated with the Ability Serene Grace.

Basiclly the purpose of compeitive battling is to win by skill so a hax clause is used to reduce the chances of winning by luck.

Also lucky punch is a signature item used by chansey to up its critical hit ratio.

Going by this...

Let's say I breed a pokemon with Super Luck, like an Absol or Honchkrow, raising its base crit ration to 12.5%. Add on a Scope Lens/Sharp Claw and it's now at 50%... Then I use Night Slash or something similar, raising crit ratio to 100% at three stages. There is no luck involved here, simply strategy and intentional breeding and training for a desired result - like ignoring deleterious stat changes and making previously weaker pokemon a viable battle member.

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[PN] Dark Lord
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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:56 am

Boss, can you open a new court thread or something... Goodra learns muddy water, a water move and I use it on mine. Its secondary effect is to lower accuracy, although this isn't the reason I use it, I would like to put it to the courts or whatever I need to be allowed to keep using the move. Of course if its ok to use it I will keep doing so.

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:27 pm

Aurath wrote:
Boss, can you open a new court thread or something... Goodra learns muddy water, a water move and I use it on mine. Its secondary effect is to lower accuracy, although this isn't the reason I use it, I would like to put it to the courts or whatever I need to be allowed to keep using the move. Of course if its ok to use it I will keep doing so.
I agree with this. We should ban evasion moves (double team, minimize) but not accuracy moves (muddy water, sand attack). Muddy Water is Goodra's ONLY water move...

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[ST] Scyther_03
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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:35 am

Ok i have a case to state... All Rise...
Opening Statement : how many of use have and use a Taloneflame... alot of us indeed and we all know that it has to have Gale Wings.... so this is what i want to plea and my case..... i want to un-BAN Blaziken & SB Blaziken.... because we all can see and KNOW he stands NO Chance against a Priority 1 Brave Bird....
Closing Statment....
if not.... then maybe a closer look at GW Talonflame is in order for BAN...

But really im cool with it, i just realized the GW Talonflame is the ULTIMATE counter to a SB Blaziken... LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:47 am

Speed boost Blaziken isn't banned, Just blazikenite.

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:53 am

still, same argument lol and i thought he was.... oh well
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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:17 am

I have to say that Blaikenite should be banned. It boosts Blazikens attack to a scary lvl, that coupled with good defences and the chance to set up makes him to much of a threat for normal mons. Its the same with Mega Kangaskhan, I dunno if you have used her, but holy hell shes a beast! a few power-up punches and shes wreaks..... which is why Kanganite has to remain band also

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:27 pm

Case of Scope lens/sharp claw - That is one particular instance however on every other Pokemon it is still just used to increase your chances of getting a lucky shot.

Case of Muddy Water - secondary effects are fine as long as they aren't the main affect

Case of Blaziken and Talonflame - First both mega and speed boost blaziken are banned according to our tier thread (where these should of been brought up). Second both of these cases have been brought up before. Blaziken is a pretty deadly sweeper even without his mega form and since he got baton pass this gen he can pass his boosts onto another sweeper before you can take him out and after he has wrecked half of your team. Admittedly there are a few counters for it but you should have to fill one of your team slots to counter one particular pokemon.

As for talonflame it is stealth rock weak, many pokemon resist flying moves, and it has weak defenses so it can be taken out easily by other priority moves such as aqua jet or sucker punch.
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far257
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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:17 pm

I'm gonna side with the scope lens people... Due to the changes in Focus Energy, Focus Energy + scope lens now = 100% to crit. Many pokemon have focus energy so this can be used by a wide variety of teams. It also has great synergy with moves like overheat and draco meteor since crits ignore stat drops. It's also an answer to pokemon like Clefable to like to spam cosmic power. I think this is a legitimate part of the game.

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:58 pm

Exactly. It only takes 3 tiers of crit boost to guarantee it - that's well out of the "lucky shot" range.

As for Talonflame, at least bump it to OU. Nearly everyone I've played is running one... Almost enough to get me running stealth rock, just for that one poke. (Which, as pointed out, remains a permanent Blaziken counter, Speed Boost or not.)

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:17 pm

Uhh... Not sure where I stand on this whole Hax Items thing... but I think I'm leaning on them still being banned. I mean, I can perfectly understand that it's a legitimate part of the game, I don't think it'd be good for the metagame. I mean, if this becomes a thing, I will be willing to bet that a lot of people will start using Focus Energy + Scope Lens or something. It's a brutal tactic, and if it's on a Pokemon with priority moves it basically secures victory. Critical Hits are annoying when they happen naturally, but WHEN THEY HAPPEN ALL THE TIME, it stops being a little advantage you can get to being flat out ridiculous. Plus, I believe that the only way to stop such Critical Hit abuse if it happens is Lucky Chant or Battle Armor, which I think only Armaldo has. I say we keep luck as luck, and keep hax items banned.

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:20 pm

Critical hits were nerfed in terms of damage this gen. They now do 1.5x instead of 2x. Scope lens + focus energy = 50% damage boost = same as +1 attack

the downside is you can't crit on a crit, so your total maximum damage is reduced, but you also get to ignore stat drops so you can spam draco meteor. seems like a fair enough trade-off to me.

In most cases, focus energy is going to be inferior to swords dance or nasty plot anyway... only pokemon using aforementioned moves or with the ability sniper can really use crit spamming effectively.

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:25 pm

Crits also ignore positive stat boosts on your opponent's pokes, which is why I want them to break through wallers.

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:28 pm

Uh, ah what the hell? It couldn't hurt too much right? I mean, it'd give Pokemon like Absol, Drapion, and Honchkrow (hey look three Dark Types) some good use in battle. Sure, I guess I'm all for this.

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:54 pm

Another thing that people should realise, that if you run focus energy, you wont wanna run another boost move as you lose coverage. Boost moves like Ddance or sword dance are better boost moves are better unless your running Sniper, or moves that lower stats.

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PostSubject: Re: Offical Battling Rules of Pokemon Wars   Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:07 pm

Aurath wrote:
Another thing that people should realise, that if you run focus energy, you wont wanna run another boost move as you lose coverage. Boost moves like Ddance or sword dance are better boost moves are better unless your running Sniper, or moves that lower stats.

^that's what i said. Kingdra with sniper, focus energy and draco meteor is a usable set, but I can't think of too many others.

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